[The thing about socialists – or should I say communists? – is that they *really* think about things. This episode will provide ample ground for those who detest or love socialism and/or socialists, but is a great example and very systems and cybeneretics focused. And just *look* at those references!]

Jason W. Moore discusses the problematic history of the nature-society divide, his alternative world-ecology approach and the challenges of building socialism.