Brendan Graham Dempsey in conversation with Francis Heylighen, published on Metamodern Meaning on 7 November 2026. Audio and video, approximately 68 minutes.

Heylighen outlines a proposed ‘Third Story’ of the universe, based on self-organising evolution, following mythic-traditional and modern-mechanistic accounts. The conversation covers metasystem transitions, consciousness, AI, meaning, and the relationship between increasing complexity and value.

Listen or watch: The Third Story of the Universe w/ Francis Heylighen.

Read Heylighen’s own writing at The Self-Organizing Universe. His Substack develops his account of complexity, evolution, and emergent organisation across physics, biology, psychology, society, and technology.